Curse

kuwlij · May 03, 2006, 07:57 PM // 19:57

I was just wondering, there are so many variaties on how you can cast multiple meteor showers in nuker builds i'd like to see what combinations other nukers use.

i (so far) have found the quickest way to cast is to have Archane Echo, Glyph or Sacrifice and meteor showers. I cast archane echo, meteor shower then sacrifice on the echoed shower. Sacrifice doesnt penalise the echoed showers since it only lasts 20 sec anyway.

echo can also be a cheap way to spam say immolate since you could cast 1 almost every 3 sec and keep a foe constantly on fire plus dmg frm the hit.

i recon that in order to be a kick ass meteor nuker u will need to include the meteor shower with any of the following; Glyph or renewal, Glyph of sacrifice, echo and /or archane echo

what do you all have to say?

Pr1nc355SaRa · May 03, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

well i use renewal and archane echo giving me 4x meteor showers. then i follow that with 4x rothgars thingy majig and i'm pretty much exasted. everythings always dead though.

Ira Blinks · May 03, 2006, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Most effective way is NOT to cast multiple meteor showers at all. Why? Well, assuming that you trying to do a nuker build, multiple showers are simply NOT a nuke.
First of all Nuke is a damage that has been taken and scrambled into a very short timeframe to provide massive spike on your dps graph.
So why isnt 2-4 showers a Nuke? Lets count:
- first shower: 5 seconds to cast + 3 seconds before first hit (nothing unusual)
- suplemental spell (echo/arcane echo/glyph) 1-2 seconds
- second shower: 5 seconds to cast + 3 seconds before first hit
So after you've finished casting first shower it will be at least another 9 seconds before second one hits, which is exactly how long shower lasts. So in the end there will be no spike (last wave of first shower and first wave of the second will overlap, but that isnt something worth mentioning really), there will be just a continious stream of damage (provided you didnt get interrupted and your echo didnt get stripped) for the cost of 50 energy + exhaustion + suplemental spells cost. If you call that a Nuke, than semi-decent JI Barrager must be a freakin super Nuker.

Now if we stop blindly running after huge numbers on spell descriptions and use our brains a little, we can figure how to use above described time offset in our advantage and put out much better spike for much less energy and effort... I will not disclose my build, so go figure yourself

But idea is pretty much the same as with Lightning surge spikers, except you using fire AoE spells.

As for above poster - I really doubt he can put out 8x 25 energy spells during the same fight (when doesnt even know how to spell their names), forget killing anything with it, unless he got second "nuker" in his group + SS or ranger...

Cjlr · May 03, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

Now if we stop blindly running after huge numbers on spell descriptions and use our brains a little, we can figure how to use above described time offset in our advantage and put out much better spike for much less energy and effort...

Now you just sound like a mesmer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

I will not disclose my build, so go figure yourself

But idea is pretty much the same as with Lightning surge spikers, except you using fire AoE spells.

Without really thinking about it, I'd say Rodgort's Invocation, if only because the numbers are quite similar to Lightning surge...

Toxic RD · May 04, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Ira, i think your going down the road of saying being Me/E would be smart due to fast casting, um. . . 1 problem E-N-E-R-G-Y

The Great Al · May 04, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

i'd rather nuke rodgorts than meteor shower

Ira Blinks · May 04, 2006, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic RD

Ira, i think your going down the road of saying being Me/E would be smart due to fast casting, um. . . 1 problem E-N-E-R-G-Y

errr wth are you talkin about?

Francis Crawford · May 04, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02

I thought a bit about the numbers last night. EXCEPT for exhaustion, Renewal/Meteor Shower isn't as crazy as it sounds. The theoretical damage from a Meteor Shower really is a lot more than from a Rodgort's Invocation, even leaving knockdown aside. And the AoE is bigger that for most cheaper spells.

But I'm still happier maxing out energy-per-minute with dual Attunements (I haven't gotten comfortable with Ether Prodigy yet) and then worrying about how to actually spend it all.

That said, I suspect that the mass enchantment stripping spells introduced in Factions, if they're more prevalent in Cantha than Rend Enchantments and Well of the Profane are in Tyria, will induce me to master Ether Prodigy soon ...

kuwlij · May 04, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

Well, assuming that you trying to do a nuker build, multiple showers are simply NOT a nuke.
First of all Nuke is a damage that has been taken and scrambled into a very short timeframe to provide massive spike on your dps graph.
So why isnt 2-4 showers a Nuke? Lets count:
- first shower: 5 seconds to cast + 3 seconds before first hit (nothing unusual)
- suplemental spell (echo/arcane echo/glyph) 1-2 seconds
- second shower: 5 seconds to cast + 3 seconds before first hit
So after you've finished casting first shower it will be at least another 9 seconds before second one hits, which is exactly how long shower lasts. So in the end there will be no spike (last wave of first shower and first wave of the second will overlap, but that isnt something worth mentioning really), there will be just a continious stream of damage

As i mentioned, if you use glyph of sacrifice on the echoed meteor shower you will be casting the 2 meteors 1 second from eachother. If you had to use seering heat with that while the foes keep dancing in the meteor showers ... well ... i'd call that a nuke

gameshoes3003 · May 04, 2006, 09:17 PM // 21:17

All i can really say is that metoer shower or firestorm never works in PvP. Also I don't see why you would want to eat your energy on 4 attacks plus the echo and stuff.

Francis Crawford · May 05, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Good point.

Glyph of Lesser Energy (optional) + Arcane Echo + Meteor Shower + Glyph of Sacrifice + (echoed) Meteor Shower costs 60 energy (before Attunements) once per minute. Or 70 if you don't use the Glyph of Lesser Energy, which you might not so as to avoid skillbar clutter. If you get the timing right to prevent escape, you can add in one or two other nasties.

Rez or Aura of Restoration (no room for both)
Elemental Attunement
Fire Attunement
Meteor Shower
Arcane Echo
Glyph of Sacrifice
Rodgort's Invocation
Fireball

In terms of energy/minute, that's approximately:

10 Aura
15 the Attunements
15 Arcane Echo
12 Meteor Shower
5 Glyph of Sacrifice

for 57, plus whatever you spend on Rodgort's (6 per casting, limit around 4/minute) and Fireball (2 per casting)

But you'd better use it against enemies who really can be knocked down, and who cluster together in a fairly tight mob.

And if you want to run Mantra of Resolve, out goes Fireball.

Ira Blinks · May 05, 2006, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuwlij

As i mentioned, if you use glyph of sacrifice on the echoed meteor shower you will be casting the 2 meteors 1 second from eachother. If you had to use seering heat with that while the foes keep dancing in the meteor showers ... well ... i'd call that a nuke

MS isnt really that damaging, it just looks big, thats it. As for overlaping showers - you not going to get permaknockdown - mobs will just "slide" out of it. It looks like a bug actually, but whatever...

Francis Crawford · May 05, 2006, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Good point. How long does knockdown last?

If it's less than 1 1/2 seconds, and surely it is, then the mobs will be able to migrate out of the attack zone.

RazielFirestorm · May 07, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

the best nuke build? you can theoretically cast out 3 nukes in a row using glyph of renewal and arcane echo:
like this - glyph of R, shower, arc echo, shower, echoed shower. however this is not efficient, it costs too much and takes too long.
most good nukers use just a glyph of renewal, the meteor shower should not be overused, u can spike out an aoe nuke that does nice dmg with 1 shower followed up with incendiary bond and rodgorts inv. the shower,bond and invo should hit within 1/2 second of eachother if done properly and you shouldnt have any downtime between mobs because you will have a lot of free slots for energy management.
in pvp nukers just arent needed, they can cause trouble but unless u are spiking quite honestly they arent that useful against real players.
in my opinion dont go down the path of thinking the more showers together the better because it really isnt, more than 2 and its overkill, you shouldnt need more than 2 to finish off an enemy (some high lvl bosses excluded). remember you will have 8 ppl in your team and you are not going to be the only dmg dealer. the most useful nuker in pve wont be the one who gets off the most showers, its the 1 who can keep going with little or no down time and take out key enemies with a single nuke chain. this is my build:
incend bond, fireball, rodgorts inv, meteor shower, glyph of R, leech signet, power drain, res
no attunes so no stripping them, good damage, interrupting ability, all aoe dmg spells, good energy management
(glyph of R is key in this build, by using it on your power drain you can get back in theory 21 energy every 16 seconds or if desperate 42 energy in 1 second, plus 11 energy every 45 secs from the signet)
this sould let you easily work out my attrib points, happy nuking.

Evilsod · May 08, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pr1nc355SaRa

well i use renewal and archane echo giving me 4x meteor showers. then i follow that with 4x rothgars thingy majig and i'm pretty much exasted. everythings always dead though.

Yeah i'm sure you do *cough* bullshit *cough*

The best combo of Meteor Showers i've ever got off was 7 in a row. Brohn sure felt that 1 in the morning

Wouldn't have been possible without BR and some very lucky quick recharges.

GoR *wait a bit*
Meteor Shower
GoR
Meteor Shower
Arcane Echo
Meteor Shower
GoR
Meteor Shower (echoed)
Meteor Shower (echoed)
GoR
Meteor Shower <-- very quick recharge
Meteor Shower

I think it went like that anyway. Then later i switched out the 4th and 5th Meteor Showers and used Maelstrom w/ A-Echo to stop them casting. Of course the situation with my energy afterwards wasn't pretty at all...

Double casting MS onto most targets is usually a waste of energy. I have been tempted to go for a trip to FoW using 2 eles, 1 your typical Renewal nuker and the other an EQ/AS warder. If you can time it properly then the moment they get up after the first knockdown Earthquake should hit them, letting you aftershock for some pretty herfty damage while the 2nd wave of MS picks up the pieces. I think the knockdown lasts 2seconds, been as Shadow Monks usually get WoH off as its 3/4second cast time, but normally fail just before casting anything at 1second.

Francis Crawford · May 08, 2006, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

I have been tempted to go for a trip to FoW using 2 eles, 1 your typical Renewal nuker and the other an EQ/AS warder. If you can time it properly then the moment they get up after the first knockdown Earthquake should hit them, letting you aftershock for some pretty herfty damage while the 2nd wave of MS picks up the pieces. I think the knockdown lasts 2seconds, been as Shadow Monks usually get WoH off as its 3/4second cast time, but normally fail just before casting anything at 1second.

Brohn once got off Mark of Protection betwen meteors against me, but maybe he timed it really well.

And I've been meaning to ask about warding builds -- what's the standard?

I have trouble liking EQ, given how inferior it is to MS. My only real experiment with warding -- which went GREAT in the Streets of Cantha -- was definitely with a suboptimal build. I'd been solo farming with Ether Renewal and just swapped out two damage spells for wards. It worked really well, but for a lot of reasons could surely be improved upon.